Brigadelok + Brigadewagen

Mon

 
Osoblje foruma
...ovakve rasprave kao na tom linku gdje se uspoređuje sa figuricama nemaju smisla...

Za mene (i ne samo za mene) ovakve rasprave imaju i smisao i važnost jer utvrde i pokažu pravu veličinu modela tj da loksa nije u veličini koja meni (i još puno zainteresovanim) odgovara (bez razlike kako se ta veličina zvala).

Kako vidim, na kraju će ispasti da je čitav ovaj projekat u najmanju ruku jedna prevara, bez razlike što neki to nazivaju "kompromisom" jer:
projekat je najavljivan u jednom, pretstavjen u drugom a u stvarnosti je u trećem mjerilu.

Moje (i ne samo moje) gledanje na ovaj projekat:

- da je stvarno u 1:87 (H0f) spreman sam bio da napravim pravu malu ložionicu sa nekoliko loksi i brdo vagona - cena je to dozvoljavala.
- da je bio u 1:82 ne bih planirao ložionicu al bih ipak sastavio jednu kompoziciju lok+četiri vagona
- u ovom 1:76 nisam zainteresovan nit za to... bar ne kako stvari sada stoje...
.
 

nik

Veteran foruma
Rasprave na bazi uspoređivanja sa figuricama nemaju smisla a imaju rasprave na bazi konkretnih mjera. Naravno da je bitno koje je mjerilo u pitanju; 1:87 i 1:82 će kupiti oni koji sakupljaju modele željeznica a 1:76 oni koji skupljaju miltary-teme u 1:72.
 

Mon

 
Osoblje foruma
Slažem se.
Meni je ta rasprava važna jer su momci na osnovu usporedbe sa figuricama utvrdili da je model 1:76 (ukoliko stvarno je) dok sam ja do sada mislio da su modeli u 1:82 (na osnovi alsbdg-ovog posta sa mailom).
Sreća da sam naleteo na ovu raspravu jer u protivnom sam bio na putu da naručim par modela. :mamurluk:
 

Mon

 
Osoblje foruma
Mere prodavca kojeg sam zamolio da mi da dimenzije Minitransovog modela lokse. Da ne prevodim pismo, mislim da tablica sve govori.

"What I think has happened is that Minitrains want the model to appeal to as many narrow gauge modellers as possible – so has based the model on 9mm track.
The model would be more appropriate on 6.5mm track but this would then make it a specialist item with far fewer possible sales – just look at Bemo to get an idea of how much more expensive it would be.

Minitrains brigadeloco comparation.JPG

This is not far out for 1:87 also holding the model next to the plan it seems in proportion – the height is difficult as I do not know where to measure. By calculating from the plan they have measured the loco to the cab roof at the base of the whistle This height is 33mm on the model – not bad I think..."

PS: nešto mi se ne slaže kod dimenzija dužine ali ko zna odakle je ko i šta merio.
 

Mon

 
Osoblje foruma
... šteta što jedini (za sada) ESU dekoder sa zvukom za "tesnoprugaše" ne odgovara baš za brigadelok model...

ESU LokSound 99.JPG
 

Gorchi

Veteran foruma
Supporter (2016)
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Ako po zvuku ne odgovara a lokicu se može vidjeti još gdje uživo to vjerojatno niti nije neki problem. Veći problem bi bio ako dekoder ne staje u lokicu zbog veličine...
 

Mon

 
Osoblje foruma
Ako po zvuku ne odgovara a lokicu se može vidjeti još gdje uživo to vjerojatno niti nije neki problem...
U pravu si mada ćemo (najverovatnije) pričekati da nekom padne napamet da upakuje zvuk u dekoder...:(

... Veći problem bi bio ako dekoder ne staje u lokicu zbog veličine...
S' obzirom da onaj kolega uspeo da smesti dekoder iza motorčića (5. post na ovoj strani) mislim da bi jedan N dekoder stao unutar loksice bez problema...
mada bi bilo zanimljivo pokušati smestiti zvučnik. :D
 

nik

Veteran foruma
Slika u boji.
RHolz_02691.jpg

http://www.drehscheibe-online.de/foren/read.php?17,6435861
 

JelleJan

Novi član
Hello all,

I hope you can read my english text, I read your text using Google Translate.
Vladimir send me the link to this forum.
I'm the man behind the website "Heeresfeldbahnwagen".
I bought myself the Minitrains models and did some measurements myself.
First of all:
The models are nicely detailled, they look fine, I like them, I will collect more of them, but... they contain mistakes.

Brigadelok:
The buffers are very short, so don't measure the machine including buffers.
Frame length: 65mm / 5060mm = 1:78
Roof height (from rail): 33mm / 2540mm = 1:77
The left side has a mistake, because they almost copied the right side:
The metal plating below the water tanks / before the cabine should be longer.
However, the brass model from West Model has the same mistake!
For the rest, I like this locomotive.

Passenger car (ambulance car):
Body length (without trucks, without roof): 65mm / 5520mm = 1:85
Body height (without trucks, without vents): 27mm / 2250mm = 1:83
Body heigth (from rail, without vents): 33mm / 2730mm = 1:83
In fact, this is the ambulance car, with doors that can be opened over the full body width.
As far as I know, in Macedonia only the passenger car with normal doors existed.
In real world, this car is a bit higher than the locomotive,
the models however have the same roof height because of the difference in scale.
I must say, this looks nice.

Open wagon:
Body length (without trucks): 65mm / 4812mm = 1:74
Body width: 20mm / 1735mm = 1:87
Height of wooden boards: 7mm / 700mm = 1:100
The wooden boards are the new type, the thin frame however is the old type (by changing parts this could exist in real world).
As far as I know, in Macedonia all open cars were the old type.

Trucks:
The sides of the trucks are the old type, the hand rails (with brake) are the new type (this does not exist in real world)
As far as I know, in Macedonia all trucks were the old type.

Macedonien conversions:
I studied if I can build the nice macedonian passenger cars, which are converted from the open wagons.
Because the model is too low and much too long, this conversion will show very unrealistic, I presume.
What do you think, has someone tried it allready?
Greetings, Jelle Jan
 

Mon

 
Osoblje foruma
Hi Jan

and welcome to our Forum, the biggest modellers forum for this part of Europe.

Thank you for your very detailed explanation -I am prety sure many of us didn't know about all differences you've mentioned.
However, let's hope that those mistakes will be corrected in the future and all brigadelok-fans will (finally) get the real H0f model with acceptable price.

Tills that moment, it is nice to have Minitrains models in our collections.

Anyway, don't hesitate to inform us about everything you'll find out in the future.

PS: your website is one of the most significant Feldbahn-sites - it is very good to have it in the future too

...
Trucks:
The sides of the trucks are the old type, the hand rails (with brake) are the new type (this does not exist in real world)
As far as I know, in Macedonia all trucks were the old type.

Macedonien conversions:
I studied if I can build the nice macedonian passenger cars, which are converted from the open wagons.
Because the model is too low and much too long, this conversion will show very unrealistic, I presume.
What do you think, has someone tried it allready?
Greetings, Jelle Jan
As far as I know nobody has done this conversion.
I would like to have Macedonian passenger cars, at list three of them and I don't exclude some effort in the future, with Minitrains as a base.

But, if you are already on the way to do it, please feel you free to inform us about your work.
.
 

JelleJan

Novi član
Thanks Mon.

Open wagon:
Body length (without trucks): 65mm / 4812mm = 1:74
Body width: 20mm / 1735mm = 1:87
Height of wooden boards: 7mm / 700mm = 1:100
>>> The wooden boards are the new type, the thin frame however is the old type (by changing parts this could exist in real world). <<<
As far as I know, in Macedonia all open cars were the old type.

Correction:
>>> The wooden boards and the high frame are both the new type (so no mistake by Minitrains !) <<<

(so, only the trucks are a mixture of the old and new construction type)

Greetings, Jelle Jan
 
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JelleJan

Novi član
Yes, that is a nice one, Vladimir, I'm planning to rescale it with scanner and printer to 1:20 as a drawing for a plastic model.

rue_d_etropal on shapeways has Brigadelok bodies in several scales:
1:43 - http://www.shapeways.com/model/1807...-1-43-scale.html?li=shop-results&materialId=6
1:55 - http://www.shapeways.com/model/1931338/b-1-55-brigade-080-1a.html?li=shop-results&materialId=99
1:76 - http://www.shapeways.com/model/2342661/b-1-76-brigade-080-1a-oo9.html?li=shop-results&materialId=6
1:160 - http://www.shapeways.com/model/2342681/b-1-160-brigade-080-1a.html?li=shop-results&materialId=6
1:220 - http://www.shapeways.com/model/2620419/b-1-220-brigade-080-1b.html?li=shop-results&materialId=6
They all have the same error as Minitrains and Westmodell. :sutim

Greetings, Jelle Jan
 

JelleJan

Novi član
Right side is correct, left side has an error (I didn't draw it exact to scale, but it tells the story):

2014-11-11_dsc_4095_748y525.jpg


The MODELIK 1:25 Brigadelok is correct.
 

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